The Gift of Elven Cloaks, lyrics proposed - need more opinions

[magpie]

CR-FOTR Disc 3, Track 4: The Fighting Uruk-hai 0:58 - 1:17
scene: from FOTR EE - we see a glimpse of Galadriel standing in her swan boat, then we see an Elven brooch being pinned onto Aragorn's Elven cloak. Celeborn states that 'never before' have those not Elven been given Elven garb like this and we see the rest of the Fellowship receiving their cloaks and brooches.

The melody seems to be a variant of the Lorien Theme. But it could be related to the music heard as the Fellowship climbs the stairs in Caras Galadhon. I'm not going to take the time now to go listen carefully.

I feel the lyrics for this singing could be derived any of four source songs.

It could be derived from the two source songs that comprise the Lorien Theme's melody:

FOOTSTEPS OF DOOM
Man sí minna?
Man ammen toltha i dann hen Amarth?
I anann darthant dam morn
Si dannatha.

and

LAMENT FOR GANDALF: CHORUS
Melmelma nóren sina
Núra lá earo núri
Ilfirin nairelma
Ananta ilyar eccatuvalme
Ar ullume nucuvalme
Nauva i nauva.


Or it could come from GALADRIEL'S SONG which is heard as the Fellowship climbs the stairs.
Cenin i Herumor
Sámarya hanyenye
Oio mahta-mahtala
Cenien sanwenya
Ananta...
Pahta i ando!
Ela i cá(le!)
Nenya sina
Corma úhátima
I haryanye.


Or we could be anticipating the farewell and it could be from NAMARIE
Ai! Laurië lantar lassi súrinen,
yéni únótimë ve rámar aldaron!
Yéni ve lintë yuldar avánier
mi oromardi lissë-miruvóreva
Andúnë pella, Vardo tellumar
nu luini yassen tintilar i eleni
ómaryo airetári-lírinen.

Sí man i yulma nin enquantuva?

An sí Tintallë Varda Oiolossëo
ve fanyar máryat Elentári ortanë
ar ilyë tier undulávë lumbulë
ar sindanóriello caita mornië
i falmalinnar imbë met,
ar hísië untúpa Calaciryo míri oialë.
Sí vanwa ná, Rómello vanwa, Valimar!
Namárië! Nai hiruvalyë Valimar!
Nai elyë hiruva! Namárië!

note to my regular lyric ladies: check the special forum link I sent you.

[Aty]

My first Try (help me Gwen)

From NAMARIE

0:00 - Ai!
0:03 - Laurië
0:05 - lantar
0:06 - la(ssi)
0:08 - súrinen
0:13 - yé
0:?? - ni
- únó
0:17 - ti
0:18 - më...



Could it possible be???????

[magpie]

Okay. I've taken a listen.

I'll add my comments after your supposition

0:00 - Ai!
0:03 - Laurië
Magpie: I could believe this is what they are singing, although it sounds a little more like it's 'lur - ee - ay' rather than 'lar -ee -ay'

0:05 - lantar
0:06 - la(ssi)
Magpie: boy, I just can't hear anything but the uhhh-uhh -ing of someone who doesn't know the words and is just making sounds.

0:08 - súrinen
Magpie: this sounds quite plausible.

0:13 - yé
Magpie: it seems like I can hear a 'y' sound.

0:?? - ni
- únó
0:17 - ti
0:18 - më...
Magpie: can't make much out.

I just can't find enough match between those words and what I hear to feel comfortable. I'm not saying it isn't right, only that I can't hear it.

I think I'll wait to get some more opinions on this one.

[Elvenscribe07]

I have:

Ai laurie lantar la(ssi) surinen

And then perhaps:

lirinen namarie.

Whatever the line after Ai laurie lantar la(ssi) surinen is, it seems to begin with l and end in -ie.

I am almost positive that this is from Namarie.

(Sorry, no timestamps)

[Elvenscribe07]

I think I have it pretty close.

(From the soundclip)

[0:00] Ai!
[0:03] Laurië
[0:05] lantar
[0:06] la(ssi)
[0:07] súrinen
[0:13] ve
[0:14] ramar
[0:15] aldar(on)
[0:16] ië

(From the CR)

[0:58] Ai!
[1:01] Laurië
[1:03] lantar
[1:04] la(ssi)
[1:05] súrinen
[1:11] ve
[1:12] ramar
[1:13] aldar(on)
[1:14] ië

The last few syllables of this piece confuse me. I can hear them clearly, but they make little sense. The -ië ending has many uses in Quenya grammar, but it makes no sense at the end of aldaron. More than likely, it was thrown in for singing aesthetic. It is interesting to note, however, that aldar is Quenya for "trees", while aldaron is Quenya for "of trees."

One more thing: the CR timestamps may not be incredibly accurate. I reconstructed them from the soundclip. I'll hopefully get around to actually listening to the CR and rearranging the timestamps.

[magpie]

The three proposals:
---------------------------------
Aty:
0:00 - Ai!
0:03 - Laurië
0:05 - lantar
0:06 - la(ssi)
0:08 - súrinen
0:13 - yé
0:?? - ni
- únó
0:17 - ti
0:18 - më...
-----------------------------------
Elvenscribe 1:
Ai laurie lantar la(ssi) surinen

And then perhaps:

lirinen namarie.

Whatever the line after Ai laurie lantar la(ssi) surinen is, it seems to begin with l and end in -ie.
-----------------------------------
Elvenscribe 2
[0:58] Ai!
[1:01] Laurië
[1:03] lantar
[1:04] la(ssi)
[1:05] súrinen
[1:11] ve
[1:12] ramar
[1:13] aldar(on)
[1:14] ië
---------------------------

The line 'Laurie lantar la(ssi)' still sounds awful muddled to me. My brain screams, why can't we hear any 'l's in there? Why don't the number of syllables line up? It sounds very 'vowel-ish' if you know what I mean.

I'm sure we have 'surinen' right. It sounds just like 'surinen' and nothing else in the source text would sound similar.

final part - the three suggestions:
yéni únótimë - which is what follows directly after surinen
lirinen namarie - which it seems Elvenscribe now believes is mistaken
ve rámar aldar(on) ie - which is Elvenscribe's most recent suggestion

It's interesting to note that each suggestion starts with a different vowel sound which tells us how hard it is to be certain of what is being sung. And Elvenscribe first thought they heard an 'l' and then changed their opinion to a 'v'. So even one person from one moment to the next isn't sure. This is always the red flag to me that we aren't likely to come to a confident conclusion. I certainly am not there.

On my site, I direct people to this thread. That lets them read the suggestions people have made. But I want to keep the lyrics on my site to those that I have some degree of confidence about.

For that reason, these lyrics remain unresolved.

[magpie]

Danijel hears:

00:58 Ai
01:02 Laurië (quick "Lauri" and long "e")
01:04 lantar
01:06 súrinen
01:13 Yéni
01:14 únó
01:15 ti
01:17 me

To compare to previous suggestions

everybody hears:
00:58 Ai
01:02 Laurië (quick "Lauri" and long "e")
01:04 lantar

two people hear 'la' at 1:05. Danijel doesn't

everybody hears:
01:06 súrinen

Danijel and Aty hear 'yeni' at 1:13 and I think I can hear a 'y' sound.
Those two agree on
01:14 únó
01:15 ti
01:17 me

Elvenscribe hears something else.

I think I can hear more syllables than yeni uno ti me. I hear something at 1:15 and 1:17. I'm also not terribly convinced with únó time. The vowels don't sound right and I think I hear an 'r' sound at the end. But nothing else looks better to me.


These lyrics, being in the extended edition, are not in the FOTR Live concert and we don't have choral lyrics for them. It's possible something may get released with Doug's new book in a year. But, I think we have enough agreement (not complete... but enough?) to publish the lyrics.

I'm going to make a call and publish what Danijel and Aty have with some of the disagreements we have.

The thread remains open.