The Moth, RESOLVED

RESOLVED in last post below
The Moth

Soundtrack CD - track 7, A Knife in the Dark
CR/FOTR - Disc 2, Track 2, The Caverns of Isengard

Source song:

A Moth in Isengard

I cemen nurrua…
ar i sure…i súre naina!


don't have any time stamps

From SF:

time stamps from "A Knife in the Dark"


2:06 I
2:12 ce
2:15-2:19 -men (solo)
2:20-2:25 ???
2:26 ar i
2:30 su-re [ su reeeeeeee]
2:34 i su- [ i suuuuuuuuuuu]
2:40 re na-
2:41 i-
2:42 na

My reply to SF's time stamps.

I counted out the syllables we need between 2:20 - 2:25 and found the time stamps for them.

[02:19]
[02:21]
[02:22] two quick syllables that blend into the next time stamp: 1 and
[02:23] two
[02:26]

I kind of thought the word nurrua would do well for that quick triplet of syllables.
Is it possible that the soloist does not finish out 'ce-men' but instead starts over?
That would give these time stamps for the boy soprano:

[02:06] I (choir)
[02:12] ce (choir)
[02:15] I (sorpano to end)
[02:19] ce
[02:21] men
[02:22] nur ru
[02:23] a
[02:26] ar i
[02:30] sure…
[02:34] i sú
[02:40] re na
[02:41] i
[02:42] na!

What do people think?
This 'makes sense' but I can't hear well enough to determine what's sung.

note: the choir at 2:12 quite clearly make a 'k' sound for 'ce'. (Which is correct.) I don't hear a strong 'k' sound from the boy soprano at 2:19. That means it is not 'ce' or the soloist mispronounced the word. I think it is possible that it is a mispronounced 'ce'.

Also, starting at 2:06, an adult choir is singing in the backdrop.
I don't know if we'll be able to hear them well enough to assign syllables.
It's not uncommon for the backup choir to just sing the first syllable the soloist is singing in that section.

I got an email from Tyrhael. I ask them to repost their information here but they haven't. Tyrhael, if you show up and would like to make your own post, under your own name... I'll delete this one.

Here's what they wrote - note that the differences in time stamps are due to two different sources of music = the FOTR CD and the FOTR CR.
---------------------

I figured out the synchronization / times for each syllable and how the chorus vs. Ben del Maestro's solo works out:

A Moth in Isengard
Disk II, Track 2

Time. . . . . . .Chorus. . . . . . . . .Solo
1:54-2:00. . . . .I
2:00-3. . . . . . . ce-
2:04-7. . . . . . . men. . . . . . . . . I
2:08-9. . . . . . . nurrua . . . . . . . ce-
2:10. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-men
2:11-4. . . . . . . ar. . . . . . . . . . . nurrua
2:15-8. . . . . . . i. . . . . . . . . . . . ar i
2:19 . . . . . . . . sú-. . . . . . . . . . sú-
2:19-21. . . . . . -rë. . . . . . . . . . -rë ...
2:22-7. . . . . . . sú-. . . . . . . . . . i sú-
2:28-29. . . . . . -rë. . . . . . . . . . -rë
2:29-30. . . . . . nai- . . . . . . . . . nai-
2:30-5. . . . . . . -na . . . . . . . . . -na

-----------------------------


magpie's response. This sounds good to me.

Question - in general - to anyone examining these lyrics.
It seems to me that I can hear three syllable. na-i-na. I don't know if this is the way this word would be pronounced. Any thoughts? Do you know how it would be pronounced? Is anyone else hearing three syllables?

For my part, I'm publishing what we have here for solo and choir. Speak up if you think we should consider something else.

Here's my best guess...

(choir) [02:07] I
[02:12] ce
[02:16] men
[02:20] nur
[02:22] ru
[02:24] a...
[02:28] i
[02:31] re...(?)
[02:35] su (?)
[02:41] nai
[02:43] na!

(solo) [02:16] I
[02:20] ce
[02:22] men
[02:23] nur
[02:24] rua...
[02:27] ar
[02:28] i
[02:31] su
[02:31] re...
[02:34] i
[02:35] sú
[02:40] re
[02:41] nai
[02:42] na!

It sounds to me like the syllable na is sung twice.

Since we are using different sources, the different time stamps can become an issue. It's just too much work for me to try to translate time stamps from one clip into another. And just fyi: I'm finding that what's heard on the Complete Recordings can be different than what's on the regular CDs or even in the movies. Although I don't mind discussing clips from any version, I'm primarily looking at the Complete Recordings right now.

Anyhow, I'm not going to try to figure out if your time stamps differ (by number) from the other versions, Turesse. It looks like you heard fewer syllables in the chorus than Tyrhael. We probably won't be able to tell for certain. Otherwise, it looks like you're mostly agreeing with what other people have heard. Thanks for your input.

okay.... I think we have this close enough to declare it mostly resolved. Here's what I put on my website:

_________Choir_______Solo
[01:54] ___ I
[02:01] ___ ce
[02:04] ___ men ______ I
[02:08] ___ nurrua ____ ce
[02:10] _____________ men
[02:11] ___ ar ________ nur ru
[02:12] _____________ a
[02:15] ___ i _________ ar i
[02:19] ___ su ________ sure…
[02:22] ___ re ________ i sú
[02:28] ___ re na ______ re na
[02:30] ___ i na _______ i na!

If you strongly feel that I'm wrong in how I've decided to go, let me know. The thread will remain open for any further comments or revisions.

Thanks to Sabsi, Tyrhael, and Turesse.

The post it's not a strong feeling you're wrong but a precision about the moth

It seem to me that we can't really have a good understanding if we don't tell there are three layers of voices.

the first is a females choir fc
a seconde is a solo (child's solo) cs
and a third is a males choir mc.

all giving something like that:


fc iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii CEEEEE
cs .......................... Meen, I cemen~nurua ar i sure i su re na i na
mc ..........................Meen,...cemen.... ..rua ar i sure i su re na i na


I have not writen all (or maybe more than he do really) what the male choir sing because when he sing he sing what the solo do even if there are some gap between them and some time the solo is the only singing some part of the song

Minor issue with the website: "A Moth in Isengard" is a Quenya source text, not a Sindarin one, as you have it listed.
Thanks

Thanks Elvenscribe.... I've corrected it on my harddrive copy and it will get uploaded with the upcoming theme update.

We have the final word on these lyrics via the choir music for FOTR Live.

[02:04]    SOLO: I    CHOIR: I
[02:08]    SOLO: ce    CHOIR: ce
[02:10]    SOLO: men
[02:11]    SOLO: nurru
[02:12]    SOLO: a    CHOIR: a
[02:15]    SOLO: ar
[02:16]    SOLO: i    CHOIR: i
[02:18]    SOLO: su
[02:19]    SOLO: re    CHOIR: re
[02:22]    SOLO: i
[02:23]    SOLO: sú    CHOIR: sú
[02:28]    SOLO: re
[02:29]    SOLO: nai    CHOIR: nai
[02:30]    SOLO: nai
[02:31]    SOLO: na    CHOIR: na

Thanks to Sabsi and Danijel.

RESOLVED