RESOLVED in bottom post

Gandalf at the Door of Moria

CR/FOTR - Disc 2, Track 11, The Doors of Durin

This is a brief piece of high, shimmery voices heard as the moon illuminates the ithildin on the door of Moria.

Source Song:

Galad Fëanor
danna or thâd gwaith
beinas sin goeol
írith sin bara


No idea of what lyrics are sung. No time stamps.

From Sabsi:

Ai! That’s sooooo hard to hear, everytime I listen, I hear something different…

time stamps from clip of just that song

0:00 - Feanor
0:04 - ammen (I know, it’s not in the poem, but that’s what I hear..)
0:09 - gwaith
0:11 - sin
0:14 - bara
0:18 – goeol (??)

I’m pretty sure about “gwaith sin bara”, but everything else is guessing…

I'm thinking I could be hearing:

0:00 - Feanor
0:04 - or thâd

I can go with gwaith - sin - bara... although it doesn't make me happy that they're jumbled up.
I know Shore does that a lot but it makes me worried that we just aren't hearing things correctly.
I can see where you might hear a 'g' sound near the end.

Anyone else?

Ethos, sent this to me by email. She's now a member but I'm going to post this here for her.

This is my guess, underlined text are heard


Galad Fëanor
danna or thâd gwaith
beinas sin goeol
írith sin bara

And a rough time stamp from the CR-FOTR track, The Doors of Durin:

1:38 gw
1:39 ai
1:42 aith
1:44 bei
1:47 na(s)
1:49 sin
1:52 a--- (don't know where this "a" comes from )
1:57 ba
2:01 ra...

Sabsi was developing time stamps off a clip of just the music I ripped from the CR-FOTR cd. Ethos was working directly from the cd. Ethos' time stamps cover a time period 5 seconds longer than Sabsi's. It's possible that I ripped a clip that was too short.

So... I will try (at some point) to go back to the CR-FOTR and rip from the time stamps Ethos is working from.

Also, even considering that I might have left out some singing at the beginning (or end), we still don't much of an agreement here (not surprising considering how soft and shimmery these voices are). With this much uncertainty, I'm going to continue to refer readers at my site to just visit this thread and see for themselves what people are hearing. So please continue to give opinions.

This is what I hear:

1:36 - Fë (starts almost into 1:37, and the next “a” follows immediately at 1:38)
1:38 - a
1:40 - nor (pronounced ah-nor, the previous “a” sound being carried over)
1:43 - bei (pronounced English “bear”)
1:46 - na
1:48 - s-sin (the initial "s" of "beinas", though you can't really hear the transition to "sin", it's very smooth, almost as if it was just one "s")
1:51 - ba
1:56 - ra (the “a” sound is carried over until 2:07)

The above literally means:

"Fëanor
Such beauty
burning"

And can be interpreted as:

"Fëanor, such burning beauty."

The Sindarin translation of what I interpreted above is (from the Annotated PDF)

"Fëanor beinas sin bara."

Notice that this is correct Sindarin grammar, the adjective following the noun i.e.: "(sin) bara" - "(such) burning" following "beinas" - "beauty".

The original text of the last 2 lines also correctly follows this pattern:

"beinas sin goeol" -> (literally) "beauty such terrible" -> (interpreted) "such terrible beauty"
"írith sin bara" -> (literally) "desire such burning" -> (interpreted) "such burning desire"

Hope this makes sense? :)

Here is what I've heard. It's seeming to me what I propose is the good text.
(Irith) "sin bara"
"Danna-or, Danna-or, Danna or" : Each sung very quickly and close to "bara" (Danna-or is very close and similar with fëanor. Thus, this, can introduce some mistakes about what you can hear at this moment).
After:
"thâd gwaith" with echos : "gwaith-ai-aith-aith-aith". the last "aith" is sung very very weakly.
"beinas sin Goeol" in which there is also echos but shorter than those of “gwaith”. "Goeol-ol".
“Sin” in this part which is that's easiest to hear in all the song, can be the tip with which you could start to entirely guess it.
And the ending part:
"Galad Fëanor. Galad Fëanor". with multiple layers of voices pronouncing the same “ Galad Fëanor in a "canon"*, after the first one.

*I hope that "canon" is a word you understand. "Canon" (in french, the language of my own country-And of that, I think it's possible you have noticed with my writing that english isn't my own natural words-and I am sorry if I have done too much errors in my english writing . So, “Canon” is when several singers together sing the same song but not in the same time. first the singer(s) begin the song and the other(s) begin later and still later for other(s), if there are many of them. It's like the couplet of the Michael Jackson's song. "leave me alone"

0:09 et 0:18 :lol:
http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/asp/...750442326A11.ra

Sin bara Danna or thâd gwaith.
Beinas sin Goeol Galad fëanor, Galad fëanor....:

.....such fiery fall on, fall on, fall on the two peoples.
such terrible beauty the light of fëanor, the light of feanor


1:36 sin
1:38* bara~
1:39* danna or
1:40 danna or
1:41 danna or
1:42 thâd
1:43 gwaith
1:46 Beinas
1:48 sin
1:51 go-
1:52 e-
1:53 ol
1:56* Ga-
1:57 lad
1:58 fëa-
1:59 nor
2:00 galad fëanor [canon**]

(* this lyrics can be listen just at the end of the seconde (") before )
(** "canon" see above)



... : Syllable longer than a normal syllable (baaaaa= ba...); . or (.) : Short or long break between two syllables, words or sentences;
- : when there is a break in a same word; ~ : Bond or very close to the next when both aren't forming a same word;
tha = Italic is a repetition of syllable for a same word.; (tham) : Missing part of word ; [fading > till about 1:53] : Commentary
/: Separation if there are several solo or choir or both
{! [00:29] neg !} : Can be (very) difficult to hear with a normal listenning. ( heard with manipulation of receiver (Level of central speaker with home cinema installation augmented or other changes)

Colors of certainty :
-Grey : Problematic -Red : No really certain -Orange : It's really possible-Blue: Almost certain or modest before other comments. -Green: Certain to hear or/and I think is resolved too

Well, we know from the FOTR Live lyrics that Gandalf at the Door of Moria is not the source text for this scene. It's Footsteps of Doom.


[1:37] Min-
[1:38] na
[1:41] ammen
[1:46] man
[1:48] sí
[1:51] anann
[1:56] dannatha


Here's what I'm writing for my website.

Doug Adams was asked about this and he replied:

I have to say, however, that the lyrics as provided by the choral sheet music match what I'm hearing on the CR-FOTR in multiple places. However, I'm not so sure they match the singing heard in the movie. There is dialog and sound effects over the singing, which complicates things. But there isn't a strong sense of hearing even the same syllables, the same number of syllables, or the same timing of syllables. (Danijel Legin thinks they are the same.) Perhaps the movie uses this 'jumbled' version of the Gandalf at the Door to Moria lyrics. But since the CR-FOTR tracks are assembled from material recorded prior to FOTR Live, the switch of source material - if one was made - would not have been prompted by the concert. Not being sure if the CR-FOTR and the movie use the same singing, one is left with two questions.

• Why would two tracks be prepared - one being used for the movie and one being assembled into the CR-FOTR?
• If there was a quest for 'more straightforward lyric just to maintain some semblance of coherence', why not use a more coherent version of Gandalf at the Door to Moria? Why use Footsteps of Doom? The subject matter of the first seems considerably more appropriate for the scene at Moria's door.

Thanks to Sabsi and Danijel for their help. The topic is RESOLVED