RESOLVED

Another iteration of the Lorien Theme

Heard on the CR-FOTR, Disc 3, Track 3, The Mirror of Galadriel
The first section is from
Footsteps of Doom:
Man sí minna?
Man ammen toltha i dann hen Amarth?
I anann darthant dam morn
Si dannatha.

The second section is from Lament For Gandalf: Chorus
Melmelma nóren sina
Núra lá earo núri
Ilfirin nairelma
Ananta ilyar eccatuvalme
Ar ullume nucuvalme
Nauva i nauva.

This iteration starts out the same as the other ones.
At 1:42, I can hear clear evidence that the 'i' in 'núri' is sung, whereas before, I had it as not sung. I don't know if I went back and relistened if I would think differently now. There's a nice sycopation for "Ilfirin nairelma" in this version.

What I have with some certainty is:

[01:07] Si
[01:09] Danna-
[01:11] (a drawn out) tha
[01:12] Nauva
[01:19] Mel-
[01:22] Melma
[01:23] Nóren
[01:25] Sina
[01:29] Nur-
[01:32] a lá
[01:34] earo
[01:36] núr
[01:42] i
[01:45] Il
[01:46] firin
[01:47] nairel
[01:48] ma

For the iteration where the Fellowship enters Lorien, I had the syllables 'a na' as coming next, but it just doesn't sound like that here. And the singing goes on for awhile but I can't tell for sure what is being sung. I think I can hear 'nairelma' again.

So I need syllables (and time stamps) for 1:48 - 2:15

note to my regular lyric ladies: check the special forum link I sent you.

*Footsteps of Doom 1:07

Si danna(tha)


*Lament for Gandalf : chorus 1:12

Nanoanaooao ect (deformation of “nauva”)
Melmelma nòren sina
Nura l’(à) earo
Il Ilfirin n(air)e(elma)-relma Il……fi(ri)noarelnoarelmoalmoalrelmoa…….. ect
(deformation of ilfirin nairelma melted with the deformed nauva)
Nura l’(à)earo nùr(i) !

"Nauva and ilfirin nairelma" are deformed and their deformation are melted".
That is asking interpretation:

I give for myself like explanation that is madness seeming to a drowning. Ilfirin nairalma Nura l'a earo nuri. Our regrets are immortals. Deeper than the deep of the sea.

Otherwise it's a song where Nenya make its enter in the film. Nenya is the ring of the water and lot of the beauty of the Lorien come from its power. And there is Peter jackson give as an explination for the apparence of Galadriel when she talk about her and the one ring if she'd have it. He say that was the apparence of a drowned.

This part of the song can't only be read nor sing as a normal texte of song
and if it should be sing that won't give nothing only by itself.
But it could be used in his interpretation. that's why I don't give all the text. only a glimpse.

Hi Minas Morgul.

I'll make a quick reply but real life is keeping me from the soundtrack lyrics right now. I will return... but I'm not sure when.

First, I have a strong preference for posts that are written in conventional type standards: Initial capitals on sentences and on proper nouns and paragraph breaks where appropriate. It is just too hard for me to make sense of text that doesn't use capital letters and proper punctuation.

Okay, on to the content. You can provide the distorted phonetics as a guide to what you hear, but on my site, I use the words (or partial words) as written. When you write this: noarelnoarelmoalmoalrelmoa - I have to go figure out what words those could be and, frankly, time is so short these days I can't do that. If it's to be helpful, I need the words as written in the official text - or, if you like, both versions.

Next, I have a fair amount of what you are providing. But at 1:36, you veer from my version. In order for me to compare what I hear to what you hear, I'll need a detailed breakdown in the manner that I do it... time stamps every syllable or few syllables. Specifically, I need 1:48-2:15... but if you disagree with my interpretation, give me specific time stamps for the syllables we disagree on.

Unfortunately, with my limits on time, the information that provides the best sort of help to me is that which requires the least amount of work from me. It needs to have detailed time stamps, and text formatting that is easy to read and understand. If it takes to long to deal with something, I just have to move on to one of the dozens of other tasks at hand.

Thanks for giving this a listen. I notice you've posted on quite a few threads and I'm grateful for your input. Again, it will be a while before I can devote some time to the lyrics but I do intend to. It's kind of high on my soundtrack priority list... but there's lots of other items on my life priority list. :)


ta,
Magpie

I have revised my listenning and I hear Like you "nura la earo" though these lyrics are pronounced elsewhere L(a)'earo in the "Lament for Gandalf" at the end of Khazad Dûm (FR CR 1/3)

You seem to be right for the first part. The only thing I am not sure about is 1:32; I don't know if a "la" is being sung or not.

Then I hear (from the soundclip):

(After "ma")
[0:44] i
[0:46] nairelma
[0:48] anan
[0:52] ta
[0:57] nú
[1:00] ra lá
[1:06] earo

I'm sorry; I will try to figure out the CR timestamps another time. However, I think these are pretty correct.

Is it safe to call these resolved? Does anyone have any other ideas?

The resolved label gets put on by myself when I've reviewed the posts, listened myself and either agree or greatly trust the source if I can't tell.

It's a label that helps me in my work on the website. Therefore, only I can declare a thread resolved.

Giving a listen

What we have
the source text intact is:

1 Melmelma nóren sina
2 Núra lá earo núri
3 Ilfirin nairelma
4 Ananta ilyar eccatuvalme
5 Ar ullume nucuvalme
6 Nauva i nauva.

I've added line numbers so I can see how much what's sung is jumping around


If we accept Elvenscribe's lyrics as correct what's sung, written out is:
nauva. 6
Melmelma nóren sina 1
Núra lá earo núri 2
Ilfirin nairelma 3

Elvenscribe's portion:
i nairelma 3
ananta 4
Núra lá earo 2

Comments:
I thought I heard 'nairelma' again so I'm content with that. I also think I heard a 'i' sound in front of that even though that means a word is chopped up. It also seems strange that nairelma would be repeated so quickly but perhaps the music was rewritten as the scene was reedited and a musical line/phrase was removed along with the lyrics (although the word preceding 'nairelma' is 'ilfirin' which does not end with the 'i' sound.

On to 'ananta': This sounds plausible but I'm not able to hear enough to feel strongly confident (for my part).

'Nura la earo': again more jumping around. Not that the lyrics don't do this occasionally, but when they do, I use that as a strong motivator to eliminate other possibilities. (Why wouldn't they just continue on with line 4 instead of jumping back to line 2? more editing?) As to what I can hear, it - again - sounds plausible. I've listened carefully and I don't think I can make the continuation of line 4 work. I do think I hear some of the sounds of line 2. Interestingly, the one syllable that makes me pause is 'la' which is the one Elvenscribe was unsure about in the first section (that I did). Perhaps the enunciation of that string of words, "nura la earo' is different from what we would expect or perhaps they've left 'la' out or perhaps the source text is wrong.

Conclusion:
I'm feeling that - more likely than not - Elven is right. Or.. as right as we'll ever get without the sheet music in front of us. However, I would really like some good ears (like Sabsi?) to give a listen and weigh in with a third opinion. If that happens, we con move on from there. If I revisit this thread in the future and find no one has weighed in, I'll go with what we've got.

I mostly agree with Elvenscribe (disagreements in italic).

The CR-time stamps are:

[1:49] i
[1:51] nairelma
[1:53] noren
[1:56] (si)na (I don't hear a 't'-sound)
[2:01] nú-
[2:04] ra (I don't hear 'lá')
[2:08] ea-
[2:10] ro

concerning 2:04 - 2:10: I just hear three syllables, not four as Elvenscribe suggests... <_<

okay... FOTR Live phonetic lyrics give us:

[01:07] Si
[01:09] Danna-
[01:11] (a drawn out) tha
[01:12] Nauva
[01:19] Mel-
[01:22] Melma
[01:23] Nóren
[01:25] Sina
[01:29] Nur-
[01:32] a (there's no "la" in the FOTR Live score, only long "-a")
[01:34] earo
[01:36] núr

[01:42] i
[01:45] Il
[01:46] firin
[01:47] nairel
[01:48] ma
[01:49] i (the score has "in" probably mistake since the following
letter is "n" in the next word)
[01:51] nairelma (the score has naurelma, probably a mistake)
[01:53] nau
[01:56] va
[02:01] nú
[02:04] ra
[02:08] ea
[02:11] ro

Thanks to Sabsi and Danijel.

RESOLVED